Axis & Allies -> Dominion Wars

[Grundig]

So yeah, I've been puttering around for a long time with the idea of adapting the classic board game Axis & Allies into the DS9 "Dominion War" story arc, and I decided to start a thread and see what input people had.

It's a turn-based board game with 6 powers:
The Dominion,
The Cardassian Empire,
The Breen,
United Federation of Planets,
Romulan Star Empire,
Klingon Empire.

Control of Powers
The powers would probably be played by 2, 3 or 4 people. Maybe 5 if the Romulans are given a bigger role in the whole ordeal.
4 player scenario:
Player A = Dominion
Player B = Cardassians & Breen
Player C = Federation
Player D = Klingons & Romulans

3 player scenario:
Player A = Dominion, Cardassia & Breen
Player B = Federation
Player C = Klingons & Romulans

2 player scenario:
Duh.

Turn Order
Klingons (attack Cardassia IU, IIRC)
Cardassians (retaliate, IU)
Federation
Dominion (invades the AQ, IU)
Romulans (tricked into joining the AQ forces, IU) "IT'S A FAAAAKE!"
Breen

So, most of the game mechanics are borrowed from A&A. The order of operations IIRC is
1) Invest in research
2) Purchase units
3) Declare all attacking moves
4) Play out all battles
5) Non-combat movement of units
6) Place all units purchased at factories
7) Whine about the Dice Gods

I don't know if research would be implemented, but it makes sense in the case of the UFP negating the Breen weapon.

Geography will be one of the big differences, and I haven't gotten too much into that yet, so we'll skip it for now.

The other big difference will be in the available units. In A&A each side has the same units available. In this adaptation, each side will have their own fleets.

I'll posts more later

[Grundig]

Ships used in the game:

Dominion
Attack Ship 231
BattleCrusier 1207
BattleShip 2998

Cardassia
Hideki 150
Galor 347
Keldon 510

Federation
Excelsior 414
Galaxy 1000
Defiant 1551
Sovereign 2765

Romulan
D'Deridex 980
Norexan 1930

Klingon
Bird of Prey 215
Vor'cha 919
Negh'var 1951

Breen
Frigate 227

Other Units in game:
Dominion Orbital Def. Platform 791
Cardassia Deep Space Station 12116
Federation Space Dock/Starbase 15141

The Breen frigate has that energy dampening weapon that neutralizes enemy ships. That seems like the only reason to include the Breen ATM.

Not sure how cloaks would work.

I didn't use the 77,000 figure for the starbase, because that's just ridiculously more powerful than anything else in the game. I used the space dock figures.

[Mikey]

I am... intrigued.

[Sonic Glitch]

I am... intrigued.

As am I.

[KuvahMagh]

I am very much interested in how you would work out the cost and the dice value for each of these units. Also would you have ground troops or limit it to Space only?

[Grundig]

I think ground troops are a little too much, at least for me. I think with just ships, this'll be sort of a naval combat game. I'm going to try to design a geography for the game that will make things interesting. Obviously the wormhole will be a giant choke point, for starters.

The first way I tried to work out the cost was to take the first two digits from each ship's strength score (those with 3 digit numbers get a 0 as the first digit). Then I added modifiers of -1, or -2 if it's built by the zillions like the Klingon BoP, and a +1 or +2 if it's an emerging technology like the Sovereign, Norexan, and maybe of the Dominion Battleship too. This method seems okay.

I have another method which uses each of the values listed below in a formula. This one's been pretty hard to get right, and I haven't quite figured it out yet.

As far as figuring out dice values, that's the tricky part. Well, one of the tricky parts anyway. I'm looking at GK's breakdown of the strength values like so:

Beam Strength + Torp Strength + Weapons Accuracy = offensive value,
Shield Strength + Combat Maneuverability = Defensive Strength,
Hull Strength = (relatively) number of hits to destroy.
Speed = Speed

All these values have to be reassigned to values on a die so that a stronger ship has a greater chance to land a blow than a weaker one. I was thinking of using 8 or 10 sided dice because there's a larger range of strengths here than in Axis & Allies, keeping in mind that the highest attack value is 100%, which isn't any stronger, just a sure thing.

The hull strength might complicate things too much. Then again, maybe not. I have a range of strengths between 1 and 3 hits.

I should also mention that I'm trying to figure out the industrial strengths of each power (i.e. how much money each power gets to spend per turn, which will change based on captured/lost territories), and that's kind of a tough thing to do.

[Sionnach Glic]

Sounds good.

[Mikey]

Sounds good to me, too. The industrial strength of each power is bound to be somewhat arbitrary no matter what you do, so I'd say that best educated guess takes it.

[KuvahMagh]

That is going to be one complex game setup, should be interesting.

[Grundig]

It'd be more based on balancing the two sides than anything else. The dominion's side will start out with about 50% more military strength, and that will be offset by the homefield advantage the AQ has with production. Here's my rough idea of the industrial capabilities each power has:

Federation: 1
Klingon: .6
Romulan: .6
Dominion: .75
Cardassia: .6
Breen: .2

So say the UFP has $50 per turn.
Klingon: 30
Romulan: 30
Dominion: 38
Cardassia: 30
Breen: 10

The total income:
AQ powers: 110
Dominion powers: 78

[KuvahMagh]

I would notch Cardassia down a bit, they are known to be resource poor which should reduce their production capacity. IMO it shouldn't be on par with the Klingons or Romulans...

[Mikey]

Agreed. Other than that, I'd say it looks about as right as you could get.

[Grundig]

Here's a chart of ship stats. For the rolls, a 10 sided die will be used for each ship. The hull strength indicates how many hits a ship can take. The final cost is the number all the way on the left.

Ship Class, (GK's Strength), Attack Roll, Defense Roll, Hull Strength, Mvt Speed (per turn), -- Base Cost+modifier = $Final Cost

Dominion
Attack Ship (231) 1A 4D 1H 3S -- 8 =$8
BattleCrusier (1207) 4A 4D H2 3S -- 15 =$15
BattleShip (2998) 9A 6D 3H 5S -- 32+2 =$34

Cardassia
Hideki (150) 1A 3D 1H 3S -- 7-1 =$6
Galor (347) 3A 1D 1H 2S -- 4-1 =$3
Keldon (510) 5A 4D 2H 3S -- 16-1 =$15

Federation
Excelsior (414) 1A 2D 1H 2S -- 3 =$3
Galaxy (1000) 3A 4D 2H 3S -- 14 =$14
Defiant (1551) 4A 6D 3H 3S -- 21 =$21
Sovereign (2765) 8A 8D 2H 6S -- 32+2 =$34

Romulan
D'Deridex (980) 3A 3D 2H 3S -- 13-2 =$11
Norexan (1930) 6A 8 2 5 24+2 =$26

Klingon
Bird of Prey (215) 1A 4D 1H 1S -- 2 =$2
Vor'cha (919) 3A 4D 2H 3S -- 14 =$14
Negh'var (1951) 6A 2D 3H 3S -- 19+1 =$20

Breen
Frigate (227) 1A 1D 1H 4S 8+12 -- =$20

Cost Formula - for each ship, add the following values
Attack Roll
Defense Roll
(Hull Strength x 4) - 4 (making 1 the standard value for hull strength)
(Movement Speed x 3) - 6 (making 3 the standard value for movement speed)
Any additional modifiers; negative numbers indicate a streamlined manufacturing process for that ship class, and positive numbers indicate involvement in experimental technology.

The Breen have a giant modifier because their ships have the energy dissipating weapon. Not sure how the mechanics of this will work.

As I write this, I realize that there might be a big problem with the hull strength. It basically gives you two or three of that ship... We'll have to work on that. Soon I'll post some of the other units, like orbital defense platforms and stations, and shipyards as well. Maybe even mining facilities?

To explain (quick and dirty) the attack and defense rolls - an offensive ship (meaning the ship that belongs to the player currently taking their turn) with an attack rating of 3 needs to roll a 3 or lower to score a hit. The hit is then assigned by the defending player to whichever ship they see fit, and that ship takes 1 hit. The attacker rolls for all of his ships, tallies the number of hits, then the defender assigns all those hits. Then before removing the destroyed ships from the game, the defender rolls for his defensive retaliation. This is where the defense rating comes in. A defending ship with a defense rating of 4 needs to roll a 4 or lower to score a hit. Roll for all of your defending ships, tally the hits you score, then the attacker assigns those hits to his ships and removes those that were destroyed immediately (since they already participated in this round).

So, if it's your turn and you're attacking, you look at the attack ratings of your ships, and totally ignore their defense ratings. If you're defending, only your ships' defense ratings matter. This is all straight out of Axis and Allies, and I'm sure their rulebook explains everything better. What I would do to implement the multiple hits that some ships can take is simple - I'd modify the attack/defense board from Axis & Allies to include 3 different levels, one for each hull strength. If a ship with 3 hull strength takes a hit, it drops down 1 rung.

One more thing - to roll for your ships, whether attacking or defending, you have to roll separately for each attack/defense rating. So, roll for all your 1's first, then all your 2's, then 3's etc. In other words, it's cheating if you roll a 6 and then say that roll was for your Norexan. You have to declare which group you're rolling for before you roll.

[Sionnach Glic]

Looks good.

[Grundig]

Man, it's really easy to throw up some numbers. Much harder to balance everything so both sides have a fair shot at winning, and everyone can get an interesting arc as the game plays out. I wanted to toss up an alternative to the industrial production allowances for the powers.

Klingons - 37
Cardassians - 25
Feds - 50
Dominion - 30 (but starts with few/no shipyards?)
Romulans - 33
Breen - 10

AQ = $120 total
Dom = $75 total
So the Dominion has 62.5% of the AQ's production. This will be balanced out with starting military strength... Meaning, the Dominion will have a butt load of ships.

Also, on a scale of 1-3 here's my idea of each power's proximity to the others. "1" is farthest and "3" is closest.
..............Dominion...UFP...RSE...Klingons..Breen
Dominion....................2.....1..........3.........3
UFP...............2....................3..........3.........1
RSE...............1...........3....................2........1
Klingons........3..........3.......2.....................1
Breen.............3...........1.......1...........1

I'm not sure if this chart'll be useful, but it's good to brainstorm. I'll probably end up just doodling it out based on what looks right visually.

I haven't yet figured out what to do with Cardassia and the Dominion in this respect. Technically they're the same, they share. But Cardassian industry will still be producing cardassian ships, and new dominion infrastructure in some captured territories will produce their fleets. The Dominion may also get re-enforcements from the wormhole, although that may have been blockaded by the start of the game. I also will assume that the Cardassians are getting help from the Dominion-- this will take the form of more $ per turn, which I took into account in the list of allowances above.