Type 21 Battleship
- Graham Kennedy
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Type 21 Battleship
Thus far virtually every ship I've designed for my universe has been for the Coalition or for members of the Coalition before it was formed; I haven't worked up anything much in the way of threat forces. I've been doodling this as a threat force battleship; it's a work very much in
progress as yet. My starting point was to have something on a par with a Kororra class in size, at about 5,000 metres long. I wanted something that was oriented more vertically than horizontally.
The main threat force are a species called the Areldeni. They are somewhat poor relations to the Coalition, and use more primitive technology - hence this uses the twin hull philosophy that the Coalition moved past some time ago. It might seem that this would make them
easy to beat, and in truth the Coalition does enjoy an advantage in that respect. But the Areldeni have really stretched the more primitive tech, scaling it up and pushing it to make it more competitive. The best analogy I can think of is the Russian Bear bomber. It was a
propeller plane in an age of jet engines, and yes it was outclassed by the B-52, but by pushing the propeller technology to the absolute limit it is still a competitive bomber even today.
I've armed it with Mark 15 AMP cannon. You may remember that the Mark is analogous to caliber, with 1 Mark = 1 inch; round energy scales in proportion to the cube of the Mark. So these are 15 inch guns as compared to the 21 inch on the Kororra. However, where the
Kororra mounts 21 AMP cannon this thing mounts no less than 51 Mark 15s. The Mark 15s also have a higher rate of fire, so their main guns are about comparable in overall firepower.
However, this beast also has a surprise in the form of three forward firing Mark 30s. They are essentially fixed axis weapons which can only fire a degree or two off the forward axis. As such it's pretty hard to hit another ship with them; but if you do get a hit in, taking a salvo from these would be like taking nine Mark 21 hits simultaneously. A captain has to be very careful to stay out of the way of these things, but in truth they are more designed for bombardment of heavily shielded targets like stations or planets.
They carry a smaller fighter complement than the Kororras, but mount a heavier anti fighter defence. There are 210 turrets each mounting quad Mark 1.5 AMP cannon - 840 cannon in all, which is a hell of a lot. Attacking these things in a fighter would not be fun.
progress as yet. My starting point was to have something on a par with a Kororra class in size, at about 5,000 metres long. I wanted something that was oriented more vertically than horizontally.
The main threat force are a species called the Areldeni. They are somewhat poor relations to the Coalition, and use more primitive technology - hence this uses the twin hull philosophy that the Coalition moved past some time ago. It might seem that this would make them
easy to beat, and in truth the Coalition does enjoy an advantage in that respect. But the Areldeni have really stretched the more primitive tech, scaling it up and pushing it to make it more competitive. The best analogy I can think of is the Russian Bear bomber. It was a
propeller plane in an age of jet engines, and yes it was outclassed by the B-52, but by pushing the propeller technology to the absolute limit it is still a competitive bomber even today.
I've armed it with Mark 15 AMP cannon. You may remember that the Mark is analogous to caliber, with 1 Mark = 1 inch; round energy scales in proportion to the cube of the Mark. So these are 15 inch guns as compared to the 21 inch on the Kororra. However, where the
Kororra mounts 21 AMP cannon this thing mounts no less than 51 Mark 15s. The Mark 15s also have a higher rate of fire, so their main guns are about comparable in overall firepower.
However, this beast also has a surprise in the form of three forward firing Mark 30s. They are essentially fixed axis weapons which can only fire a degree or two off the forward axis. As such it's pretty hard to hit another ship with them; but if you do get a hit in, taking a salvo from these would be like taking nine Mark 21 hits simultaneously. A captain has to be very careful to stay out of the way of these things, but in truth they are more designed for bombardment of heavily shielded targets like stations or planets.
They carry a smaller fighter complement than the Kororras, but mount a heavier anti fighter defence. There are 210 turrets each mounting quad Mark 1.5 AMP cannon - 840 cannon in all, which is a hell of a lot. Attacking these things in a fighter would not be fun.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Ooooh, I like.
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
I like the look, too. It looks like it has a few super-instant-death weapons mounted.
I also like the idea of a less technologically advanced threat being able to compensate for their deficiencies.
I also like the idea of a less technologically advanced threat being able to compensate for their deficiencies.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- Captain Seafort
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Kewl.
I like the way you've developed the "same but different" impression I got from the Coalition ships, to give these Areldeni a distinct style while retaining the same basic "feel".
Do the Areldeni have planetbuster technology?
Incidently, I'm a strong nBSG Pegasus vibe from the broadside image for some reason. Anyone else see similarities?
I like the way you've developed the "same but different" impression I got from the Coalition ships, to give these Areldeni a distinct style while retaining the same basic "feel".
Do the Areldeni have planetbuster technology?
Incidently, I'm a strong nBSG Pegasus vibe from the broadside image for some reason. Anyone else see similarities?
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- SuperSaiyaMan12
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
*Purses lips* I thought you said you weren't into making any ships at this time
- Graham Kennedy
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
I'm thinking this through as I write, so the following is a stream of consciousness stuff...Captain Seafort wrote:Kewl.
I like the way you've developed the "same but different" impression I got from the Coalition ships, to give these Areldeni a distinct style while retaining the same basic "feel".
Do the Areldeni have planetbuster technology?
Incidently, I'm a strong nBSG Pegasus vibe from the broadside image for some reason. Anyone else see similarities?
There's nothing too special about planetbuster tech in this universe; anybody who builds Midspace ships on this scale with this performance has to be able to generate the necessary amount of energy, and the technology to store and then release it isn't that hard. However, remember that
planetbusting tech is pretty much pointless in most circumstances; the Coalition only did it because they had an enemy to contend with that couldn't be defeated with conventional means. The Areldeni haven't faced that. However, there is a drive to have a particular gadget just because
your enemy does, so they do want the capability.
On the Type 21, the power systems are in the aft hull. You couldn't fit a PBC within the aft field lobe so that's out. You could maybe get one in the forward field lobe, but piping all that energy through the connecting neck is not something I'd want to do.
What you could do is put a sub-sized PBC on each side of the aft hull, each maybe a tenth or so the size of full sized one. A shot from that would still redocrate your planet pretty effectively, possibly even reduce it to a bunch of fragments that was still clinging together.
For full planetbusting I am thinking that they might field a class of dedicated planetbuster ships. That would have some advantages over the way the Coalition does it, actually.
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
I only did this today.SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:*Purses lips* I thought you said you weren't into making any ships at this time
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
A sort of Eclipse analogue, rather than a Death Star analogue then? Interesting.GrahamKennedy wrote:What you could do is put a sub-sized PBC on each side of the aft hull, each maybe a tenth or so the size of full sized one. A shot from that would still redocrate your planet pretty effectively, possibly even reduce it to a bunch of fragments that was still clinging together.
Incidentally, how effective would the PBCs be as anti-ship weapons, a la RotJ? They've got the firepower, but is their targeting good enough to pull off such a shot?
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
No idea what an Eclipse is, so I will just take your word for that.Captain Seafort wrote:A sort of Eclipse analogue, rather than a Death Star analogue then? Interesting.GrahamKennedy wrote:What you could do is put a sub-sized PBC on each side of the aft hull, each maybe a tenth or so the size of full sized one. A shot from that would still redocrate your planet pretty effectively, possibly even reduce it to a bunch of fragments that was still clinging together.
Many problems. The more recent Coalition cannon can be tracked from side to side and down (but not up), somewhat, but pretty slowly and not all that accurately. They are also lightspeed limited weapons, so they don't shoot very far. It also takes a while to charge one up; an hour or so. It's conceivable that you could hit a ship with one, but really not something they are designed for. If you did, it would be like a fly in a flamethrower!Incidentally, how effective would the PBCs be as anti-ship weapons, a la RotJ? They've got the firepower, but is their targeting good enough to pull off such a shot?
I have in mind that occasion in the Gulf War when a strike aircraft saw a helicopter and didn't have any air to air missiles... so he dropped a bomb on it! Yeah it's possible, but it's a stunt that you'd never plan for on purpose.
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
The Eclipse class Star Dreadnought. It's main weapon is a scaled-down superlaser, capable "only" of wiping out continents, rather than planets.GrahamKennedy wrote:No idea what an Eclipse is, so I will just take your word for that.
I suspected as much, given the write-up you gave in the Kororra thread.Many problems. The more recent Coalition cannon can be tracked from side to side and down (but not up), somewhat, but pretty slowly and not all that accurately. They are also lightspeed limited weapons, so they don't shoot very far. It also takes a while to charge one up; an hour or so. It's conceivable that you could hit a ship with one, but really not something they are designed for. If you did, it would be like a fly in a flamethrower!
That's not the half of it - you may have heard of the tactic used during WW2 of using a battleship's main armament as anti-aircraft guns. It was mainly done to produce a splash barrage in front of torpedo bombers, but the Yamato class also had a specialised 18-inch anti-aircraft shell, for use at maximum elevation against high-altitude level and dive bombers.I have in mind that occasion in the Gulf War when a strike aircraft saw a helicopter and didn't have any air to air missiles... so he dropped a bomb on it! Yeah it's possible, but it's a stunt that you'd never plan for on purpose.
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Actualy, I thought it looked more like the Warlock class from B5.Incidently, I'm a strong nBSG Pegasus vibe from the broadside image for some reason. Anyone else see similarities?
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Wacky idea. Were they effective?Captain Seafort wrote:That's not the half of it - you may have heard of the tactic used during WW2 of using a battleship's main armament as anti-aircraft guns. It was mainly done to produce a splash barrage in front of torpedo bombers, but the Yamato class also had a specialised 18-inch anti-aircraft shell, for use at maximum elevation against high-altitude level and dive bombers.
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Yeah, I can see it. The larger, forward sloped fore section with a smaller neck behind.Captain Seafort wrote:Kewl.
I like the way you've developed the "same but different" impression I got from the Coalition ships, to give these Areldeni a distinct style while retaining the same basic "feel".
Do the Areldeni have planetbuster technology?
Incidently, I'm a strong nBSG Pegasus vibe from the broadside image for some reason. Anyone else see similarities?
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
- SuperSaiyaMan12
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
Could you make my NX-class then? It'd really be much appreciated.GrahamKennedy wrote:I only did this today.SuperSaiyaMan12 wrote:*Purses lips* I thought you said you weren't into making any ships at this time
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Re: Type 21 Battleship
You like anything with a lot of guns on it...rochey wrote:Ooooh, I like.
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Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.