Would you do a Ransom?

[Nickswitz]

This is going to be one of those debates for the ages.

It's been a while since we've had a good one, so... Huzzah!

At least none that we would end up remembering in the future.

[Teaos]

The soul one going on at the moment isnt a bad one either.

[Nickswitz]

Yeah it is going pretty good, these are some fun discussion!

[Tsukiyumi]

I wonder what's different? ...

[Nickswitz]

Really nothing, they seem to argue well in spurts, IDK why though?

[Teaos]

Its because these are moral debates with no answers.

If we are debating a person or a ship its all facts and figures, sure opinions matter a bit but there are usually right and wrong answers.

These moral debates have no answer.

[Tsukiyumi]

...These moral debates have no answer.

They have an answer, just not necessarily a right one.

[Nickswitz]

Ah.

Thank you Teaos for that brilliant succinction of thoughts.

[Mikey]

I think the issue at hand is the Katefan is talking about the absolute morality of Ransom's actions; we had been debating the idea of whether or not we would sidestep that absolute to do what he did. Nobody ever said that under normal circumstances, we should go harvesting these things for a boost in warp speed.

[Teaos]

I cant say for sure I wouldnt even do that.

[Mikey]

Meh. Probably not too much meat on a trans-dimensional alien.

[Teaos]

As I;ve said I put these creatures at or slightly above a dolphin. So long as I was at no risk of wiping out the species I doubt I would have a problem with farming them for fuel or other things.

[Reliant121]

I'm with Seafort on this one, partly because I don't think I'd enjoy the idea of eating a snail and partly because of the way he worded that... "armoured slug"...

Onto the vegetarian bit...

I've heard the screams of the vegetables
Watching their skins being peeled (Having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot Juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables grow)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's as dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade...)

-Arrogant Worms - Carrot Juice is Murder

On a side note, Reliant, have you tried arguing that most people your age do not like vegetables and that you should be allowed to eat more instead of meat, I'm not talking about cutting meat out entirley since from what I've read that seems unlikely, rather changing the ratio of meat to veg on your plate. You could also try and convince them to do a veg only supper every so often that way your not always eating meat...

And back to the point at hand...

Ransom had an obligation to his crew to get them home safely. There are more than these 80 people at stake, what of their families, their children, would you deprive them of their fathers &/or mothers so easily just because you could not live with the burden of Command? Best case scenario he puts it to the crew, anyone who wants off before he does it can settle on some barren hunk of rock and keep their morals intact, all those in favor of going home, stoke the fires higher...

I love vegetables. Ironically, i dislike salad.

[katefan]

As I;ve said I put these creatures at or slightly above a dolphin. So long as I was at no risk of wiping out the species I doubt I would have a problem with farming them for fuel or other things.

And you are basing that observation upon a brief conversation between Janeway and one of the aliens. If all aliens were judged by the first few words out of their mouth Picard would have abandoned any and all conversations with the Darmok after a couple exchanges;

"Let us not talk to the Darmok, Number One; they are a silly species."

This is the last thing I am going to say on this subject. Say Ransom got his crew home. What do they come home to? Their careers are ruined. Who would want to serve with any crewmember that participated in first degree murder on a regular basis? Janeway and her crew's reaction to Ransom's actions implies that would be the reaction. We saw a similar attitude from Picard regarding the crystilline entity and his crew's reaction to the Bandi's abuse of the giant alien in Encounter At Farpoint. Intelligent life comes in all forms and from what we saw in TNG it was to be defended at all costs from abuse or exploitation (see Tin Man, for example).

So not only do Ransom and his crew face numerous charges, they face the knowledge that they will be pariahs, both professionally and personally. Is that the sort of life they want to come home to? For a son to be unable to look into his mother's eye, knowing what he did to return home?

Ransom did not talk to the aliens because he did not want to know. He preferred to live in ignorance. This behavior is in such gross violation of the tenents of Starfleet, it is in gross violation of human decency. It is monstrous.

Just above the intelligence of dolphins? How do we know? An assessment of overall intelligence has to be made through extensive communication. "Give us Equinox!" is an angry outburst from an outraged alien whose fellows have been murdered, tossed like fuel into a furnace. And yeah, I think it is analogous to Jews and concentration camps. Ransom's unwillingness to pursue the nature of the aliens' intelligence is analogous to numerous Germans choosing ignorance in regards to the fate of Jews. To paraphrase a famous liberal, it was an inconvenient truth and stood in the way of his goal.

[katefan]

Double post. Sorry.