DS9 and Money

[Captain Seafort]

He was certainly being obnoxious (it's series 1 Picard, what do you expect), but he repeated himself to Lilly almost verbatim in First Contact, when he wasn't being deliberately obnoxious.

Besides which, when have we ever seen anything significant privately owned by a Federation citizen in the TNG era? No starships, no shuttles, no companies, no TV channels, no freelance scientists, nothing. Everything is Federation this, Federation that. If we hadn't heard it in DS9, I'd have said this should be the Federation anthem.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

He was certainly being obnoxious (it's series 1 Picard, what do you expect), but he repeated himself to Lilly almost verbatim in First Contact, when he wasn't being deliberately obnoxious.

Besides which, when have we ever seen anything significant privately owned by a Federation citizen in the TNG era? No starships, no shuttles, no companies, no TV channels, no freelance scientists, nothing. Everything is Federation this, Federation that. If we hadn't heard it in DS9, I'd have said this should be the Federation anthem.

Sisko's dad had a restaurant. Beyond that... when have we had an opportunity to see them owning stuff like that?

[Captain Seafort]

Sisko's dad had a restaurant.

For profit, or simply because he liked cooking? Given the balance of evidence, I'd say the latter.

Beyond that... when have we had an opportunity to see them owning stuff like that?

Every time we see their quarters they're virtually empty. Aboard ship, fair enough, although it doesn't jibe with the luxury of the things but on Earth, or DS9 itself, that simply isn't an option. And how many times did O'Brien nearly break his neck tripping over a discarded toy? Never. On top of that there's not a single reference to privately owned transport, even though there's plenty of it among other species (Quark's shuttle for example) - every single trip is discussed in terms of booking passage on a state transport. Every time we see a communication, even the civilian ones, it ends with the UFP seal. Jake didn't work for the equivalent of Reuters, or CNN, or Sky, but for the official news agency, and he was the only reporter there - unlike the bunch who mobbed Kirk at the E-B's launch. We don't see a single corporate logo, anywhere.

[Mark]

Cassidy Yates owned her freighter

[Foxfyre]

Trek and Money........Gene Rodenberry's ultimate joke on the fans ..... lol If I were him watching these debates unfold I would be laughing and kicking myself for not coming up with it sooner.

[Mark]

Too bad we're not laughing

[Mikey]

Seafort's exactly right. The only thing that might possibly been interpreted as private ownership of anything more major than a souvenir within the TNG+ era UFP is the SS Raven - which might be owned by the Hansen's, or which might be owned by the scientific research organization for whom they worked.

[Captain Seafort]

Seafort's exactly right. The only thing that might possibly been interpreted as private ownership of anything more major than a souvenir within the TNG+ era UFP is the SS Raven - which might be owned by the Hansen's, or which might be owned by the scientific research organization for whom they worked.

The script has this to say about the Hansen's authorisation:

The Federation Council on Exobiology has given us final approval. Starfleet's still concerned about security issues but they've agreed not to stand in our way. We've said our goodbyes, and we're ready to start chasing our theories about the Borg.

That suggests to me that the Raven was a government-owned ship. Why would independent researchers need authorisation from a government scientific body?

[Mikey]

I don't believe it was their ship. But, that's the only thing I can think of that could possibly be deemed private property without direct contradiction from canon.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Tom bought a shuttle in Voyager. Sisko had an African art collection. And taking your antique 20th century comic collection aboard the SS Blow up Quick and lose it to negative space wedgie 34574 isn't exactly a good idea.

And that's all I'm gonna say. I can't separate OOU and IU, so I'm just gonna give myself a headache.

[Sonic Glitch]

The Federation Council on Exobiology has given us final approval. Starfleet's still concerned about security issues but they've agreed not to stand in our way. We've said our goodbyes, and we're ready to start chasing our theories about the Borg.

That suggests to me that the Raven was a government-owned ship. Why would independent researchers need authorisation from a government scientific body?

Um, I would suspect to get the resources they need approval of some sort of research organization to research something relating to say, exobiology. If I want to get money from some sort of political science department or a Fulbright grant, to research the political evolution of ghana or whatever, should I not have to justify my research and get approval from them? (I apologize if that's awkwardly phrased but I hope you get it.)

[Captain Seafort]

What exactly did they need, other than the ship and a few bog-standard sensors? They'd certainly need sponsorship, but that could be provided by any one of half a hundred private investors, if they existed. Why would they need approval from a government scientific body just to go out on a research jaunt? It's effectively a repeat of "Force of Nature", when the next option after asking the Federation Science Council to look into their local environmental damage wasn't to hire an independent scientist to do a more detailed study, but to lay a minefield.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

One more thing, then I'm done. The scientists in 'Force of Nature' were batshit insane and basically Greenpeace in space.

[Sonic Glitch]

What exactly did they need, other than the ship and a few bog-standard sensors? They'd certainly need sponsorship, but that could be provided by any one of half a hundred private investors, if they existed. Why would they need approval from a government scientific body just to go out on a research jaunt? It's effectively a repeat of "Force of Nature", when the next option after asking the Federation Science Council to look into their local environmental damage wasn't to hire an independent scientist to do a more detailed study, but to lay a minefield.

Well, we know the federation seems to control ever aspect of something like that. The Federation Council on Exobiology probably controls all aspects of exobiology research, which is what the Hansens were doing. And, since it is possible that civilians can own their ship (i believe it's been stated --and then never debated --that Kassidy Yates owns her ship) they would need funding to purchase a ship, and depending on what they're doing they'd probably need more than a few "bog-standard" sensors. If you're looking for something which may or may not exist wouldn't you need some more powerful sensors? Or at least more powerful than what civilians can easily get their hands on? You also need someone to inform authorities of what you're doing so you don't get in trouble with local authorities for flying around or asking impertinent questions. It would be nice to have access to any gov't records on the subject as well, which the Fed Council would probably control access to. Note: I am not saying there were not publicly accessible records or that the Federation/Starfleet had any records on the Borg, but if they did they were probably classified out the wazoo, so they would need permission from a gov't agency to find out even if there were any records.

Edit: Striker's right. As they were basically crazy they probably felt they couldn't trust an "establishment"

[Mikey]

re: Kassidy's ship - she operated outside the auspices of the UFP. It's a fair bet she bought the ship in the same manner.