Dominion War Redux

[Nickswitz]

JudgeKing wrote:
Going by the description, the transphasic torpedoes should work on non-Borg ships just as well.


Why in hell didn't the E-E use them against the Scimitar? One or two torps; fight over.

I don't buy it.

We've considered that before; I, for one, believe that to be true. Otherwise, there'd be no good reason why the Enterprise E didn't use them during Nemesis.

But there's still the question of why they didn't use the Batmobile ablative armor, which was shown to be effective against non-Borg ships.

I have an answer to both of these... It was future tech, and they probably had no clue to apply them to a ship besides voyager.

[Tyyr]

Or they aren't deployed constantly. It could be that being future tech, and powerful future tech, the Federation decided to keep them under lock and key somewhere safe only to whip them out if it looks like game over for the Federation again.

[Deepcrush]

So the flagship of the UFP, one of its most powerful vessels, was armed with sub-standard weapons? I don't really buy that.
Either they're specified anti-Borg weapons, or Starfleet was unable to recreate them following future-Janeway's death.

Sorry, I meant they just hadn't had time yet to take the design and work it out for other non future ships. ie... Voy was still the only ship to have it at the time.

[Mikey]

How Transphasic Torpedoes work according to GTTS:
Greater Than The Sum wrote:
The transphasic torpedoes work by delivering a subspace compression pulse existing in an asymmetric superposition of phase states. If one subcomponent of the pulse is blocked by shielding, enough others will still succeed in penetrating to the target to ensure that the majority of the pulse is still delivered. Each torpedo's transphasic configuration is different, randomly generated by a dissonant feedback effect, so there is no way for the Borg to predict the configuration of its phase states in order to shield against them.

Going by the description, the transphasic torpedoes should work on non-Borg ships just as well.

Unless this "GTTS" has an on-screen clip stating that's how they worked, then there's no reason to accept that at all.

Mikey, you do realize this is a scenario that takes place after the events of a non-canon work right, so non-canon is definitely aloud.

If you mean "allowed," then sure - you're always "allowed" to accept whatever you choose to. However, these sources' status as non-canon means that there's no reason for anyone else to accept them as the basis of an argument - to me, for example, a position based on these sources is completely unfounded.

[Lazar]

Again, I like to go with the belief that they simply couldn't recreate the stuff without future-Janeway's help.

I'm not sure if future-Janeway was really involved much with the refit - Seven reported that the armor and torpedoes were compatible, then they ordered Seven to perform the upgrade, and then it showed a shot of Voyager's engineering crew working. I find it hard to think that with that experience, and a working example, SF wouldn't be able to apply it to other ships. The only possibility that makes sense to me is that it was confiscated by the authorities for being future tech. An incredibly stupid thing to do, but after all it is SF.

[JudgeKing]

Again, I like to go with the belief that they simply couldn't recreate the stuff without future-Janeway's help.

I'm not sure if future-Janeway was really involved much with the refit - Seven reported that the armor and torpedoes were compatible, then they ordered Seven to perform the upgrade, and then it showed a shot of Voyager's engineering crew working. I find it hard to think that with that experience, and a working example, SF wouldn't be able to apply it to other ships. The only possibility that makes sense to me is that it was confiscated by the authorities for being future tech. An incredibly stupid thing to do, but after all it is SF.

In GTTS, It is stated by Seven of Nine that the armour was already adapted to and thus useless while the transphasic torpedoes were reserved for Borg only use. Why they didn't at least apply the armour to Federation ships is beyond me.

[Deepcrush]

Because Trek is built mostly out of KT style writers... ie zero IQ.

[Sionnach Glic]

Sorry, I meant they just hadn't had time yet to take the design and work it out for other non future ships. ie... Voy was still the only ship to have it at the time.

Ah, right. We're in agreement, then.

Or they aren't deployed constantly. It could be that being future tech, and powerful future tech, the Federation decided to keep them under lock and key somewhere safe only to whip them out if it looks like game over for the Federation again.

Possible. Though Starfleet does seem to have a more militarised view following the Dominion War. I'd be surprised if they didn't at least experiment with the stuff. I think it's more likely they simply can't recreate any of the tech.

I'm not sure if future-Janeway was really involved much with the refit - Seven reported that the armor and torpedoes were compatible, then they ordered Seven to perform the upgrade, and then it showed a shot of Voyager's engineering crew working.

Fitting it onto the ship and actualy building a set from scratch are two entirely different things. I can fit a new hard drive into my computer, but it doesn't mean I've any idea how to make one.

I find it hard to think that with that experience, and a working example, SF wouldn't be able to apply it to other ships.

Why not? Hand Leonardo Da Vinci the blueprints to an F-22 and he'd never be able to build one. This is a similar scenario. The tech's simply beyond them for now.

The only possibility that makes sense to me is that it was confiscated by the authorities for being future tech. An incredibly stupid thing to do, but after all it is SF.

That's beyond retarded, but yeah, I can see them doing it too. Still, I prefer my idea.

In GTTS, It is stated by Seven of Nine that the armour was already adapted to and thus useless while the transphasic torpedoes were reserved for Borg only use. Why they didn't at least apply the armour to Federation ships is beyond me.

Yet again, non-canon.

And just how the fuck do you adapt to a lump of metal?

[Vic]

I suppose that if the armor is replicated in some way (a'la the batman starship armor) then one knows exactly how it is put together, hence knowing how to get through it. Another way is knowing just what materials are in it, hence knowing just how much energy to apply to get through it. Or are those both the same thing?

[Tsukiyumi]

...And just how the f**k do you adapt to a lump of metal?

Good question. If they decided to just blast through with sheer power, that would mean that all Starfleet ships without the armor would be vastly underprotected.

Maybe it's a matter of disrupting the links holding the armor in place?

[Sionnach Glic]

Unlikely. If they could affect the systems on a ship like that, they'd be able to do worse than nulify the armour advantage.

[Tsukiyumi]

Unlikely. If they could affect the systems on a ship like that, they'd be able to do worse than nulify the armour advantage.

Maybe the links are held together with silly putty.

[Sionnach Glic]

Really wouldn't surprise me.

[McAvoy]

You are correct that all US battleships built in WW2 was not all built with lower speed in mind. However, the Iowa class is the eception to the rule because they were designed for two reasons. To keep up with the carriers as escorts and as a counter to the Japanese Kongo class battlecruisers.

[JudgeKing]

Here's the exact quote.

"Transphasic Torpedoes?" Beverly asked. "Those are one of the advanced technologies brought bak by Voyager, aren't they?"

"Correct," Seven said. "They proved instrumental in our destruction of the Borg Transwarp Hub."

"Along with an ablative hull armour, if I recall," Worf said.

"Yes. But the Borg adapted to the armor during the battle in the transwarp network, nullifying its value as a defense."