The Box - what would you do?

[IanKennedy]

That's not a sure fire way to kill someone though. In fact the odds are very good you wouldn't kill someone in that set up. If you want a certain kill you're going to have to do better.

I don't have to do anything. The point is the device does what it says on the tin. Your are happy to press the button. You are an assassin in waiting. Nothing else remains but to set a price. The fact that you cannot concieve of a way the box can work without outside intervention is irrelevant to facts. I'm sure a caveman would have no idea of how a gun could work, it would still be them that killed someone if they shot someone with it, not the builder of the gun.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

You know, even though I won't be pushing the button, I'd still be committing murder...


Of the asshat who gave me the box in the first place.

[IanKennedy]

You know, even though I won't be pushing the button, I'd still be committing murder...


Of the asshat who gave me the box in the first place.

So do you go around killing people who sell guns? The principle is the same.

[Lighthawk]

You know, even though I won't be pushing the button, I'd still be committing murder...


Of the asshat who gave me the box in the first place.

So do you go around killing people who sell guns? The principle is the same.

Exaggeration. Guns are bought by people other than murders. This box can't be used for hunting, competition shooting, or self defense.

[Uzume]

I'd push the button...... We're all gonna die one day, might as well live it up if you get the chance.

[IanKennedy]

You know, even though I won't be pushing the button, I'd still be committing murder...


Of the asshat who gave me the box in the first place.

So do you go around killing people who sell guns? The principle is the same.

Exaggeration. Guns are bought by people other than murders. This box can't be used for hunting, competition shooting, or self defense.

We have no idea of the capabilities of the box other than what we were told. Press the button and someone will die.

- What happens if a cat presses the button? Does a person still die, does a cat die, does nothing happen or does something completely different happen?
- What happens if you press the button and don't take the money? Does it make any difference?
- What if the box falls off the table and lands on the button? Does some random room suddenly die. If so what does that actually mean?

The point is we've no idea how or what will happen outside of the original statement. So we can't say what the box can and can't be used for.

[Lighthawk]

We have no idea of the capabilities of the box other than what we were told. Press the button and someone will die.

- What happens if a cat presses the button? Does a person still die, does a cat die, does nothing happen or does something completely different happen?
- What happens if you press the button and don't take the money? Does it make any difference?
- What if the box falls off the table and lands on the button? Does some random room suddenly die. If so what does that actually mean?

The point is we've no idea how or what will happen outside of the original statement. So we can't say what the box can and can't be used for.

All interesting questions, and I'll conceed that yes, we don't know for certainty what all the box could be used for other than killing a random someone and then getting money for it. However none of that address the statement you made in regards to killing gun salemens. You basically implied that people who sell guns are as bad, morally speaking, as a guy offering people lots of money to kill a random person by pushing a button.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

You know, even though I won't be pushing the button, I'd still be committing murder...


Of the asshat who gave me the box in the first place.

So do you go around killing people who sell guns? The principle is the same.

Some jackoff is giving me a box and is telling me to push it. I get a million dollars and someone dies. Plain, coldblooded murder. I don't cotton to that. So I take it out on his sorry-ass hide.

[Mikey]

Lighthawk - I see what you're saying, but it's a semantic concern. Amend Ian's statement to read "handguns" rather than "guns," and you'll get the picture. Hell, if you're going to throw up some crap about the big 5-shooter revolver hunting pistols, just say "SA handguns."

[Lighthawk]

Lighthawk - I see what you're saying, but it's a semantic concern. Amend Ian's statement to read "handguns" rather than "guns," and you'll get the picture. Hell, if you're going to throw up some crap about the big 5-shooter revolver hunting pistols, just say "SA handguns."

I still call exaggeration. Being a gun seller, even if all you sell are small handguns (which are still useful for things like say, self defense), does not put you on the same level as someone handing out a device which (as far as we know) has a single, and indeed unique purpose, which is to kill someone at random in exchange for money.

Honestly, it has less to do with the device, which is merely a tool to accomplish a means. It's the intent with which the device is given: the person handing it out is encouraging people to kill for money. I won't say every single gun seller is a peaceful fellow, but I doubt the majority of them are hoping that their guns will be used to slaughter random innocents for cash.

So no, I don't get the picture. I consider it entirely unfair and rather absurd to suggest that selling guns makes you as bad a person as someone who is paying people to kill indiscrimately.

[Mikey]

What is the basic function of a handgun? To kill a person. They are not hunting weapons (that's why I included the caveat about the big 5-shooters.)

I truly understand your point, that the box has the added motivation of killing for money, which is an important distinction. But why would I ever purchase a handgun if I don't ever intend to kill someone?

[Lighthawk]

What is the basic function of a handgun? To kill a person. They are not hunting weapons (that's why I included the caveat about the big 5-shooters.)

I truly understand your point, that the box has the added motivation of killing for money, which is an important distinction. But why would I ever purchase a handgun if I don't ever intend to kill someone?

As I've said many times, for self defense, especially of the home. In the typical home, a handgun is the ideal defensive weapon. Other than that, many many people enjoy handguns recreationally, just shooting at targets. For example, myself. I have absolutely no intention what so ever of killing anyone, but I have a handgun. It's fun to take to the range and lob off a few rounds through a target.

[IanKennedy]

Lighthawk - I see what you're saying, but it's a semantic concern. Amend Ian's statement to read "handguns" rather than "guns," and you'll get the picture. Hell, if you're going to throw up some crap about the big 5-shooter revolver hunting pistols, just say "SA handguns."

Apologies for not being precise, that's the type of gun I was talking about.

[IanKennedy]

What is the basic function of a handgun? To kill a person. They are not hunting weapons (that's why I included the caveat about the big 5-shooters.)

I truly understand your point, that the box has the added motivation of killing for money, which is an important distinction. But why would I ever purchase a handgun if I don't ever intend to kill someone?

As I've said many times, for self defense, especially of the home. In the typical home, a handgun is the ideal defensive weapon. Other than that, many many people enjoy handguns recreationally, just shooting at targets. For example, myself. I have absolutely no intention what so ever of killing anyone, but I have a handgun. It's fun to take to the range and lob off a few rounds through a target.

If you don't intend to kill anyone with that hand gun then I wouldn't try using it for self defense. It's a very bad idea to try and use it for anything else in that circumstance.

But to get you off this hang up what about people who sell hand guns to criminals? Are you off to kill them?

[Lighthawk]

If you don't intend to kill anyone with that hand gun then I wouldn't try using it for self defense. It's a very bad idea to try and use it for anything else in that circumstance.

Fine, let me reword it to be more exact "I would not use a handgun, or any weapon for that matter, to commit MURDER. Actually, just take out the weapon part, I have no intention of MURDERING anyone. However if a situation occured in which someone was threatening my life or the life of a loved one, I would be willing to use up to and including lethal force as needed to prevent them from succeeding, which may include the use of a firearm if the situation seemed to warrent it and one was readily availible."

Better?

But to get you off this hang up what about people who sell hand guns to criminals? Are you off to kill them?

That's more of a gray area. I think they would be desrving of some kind of punishment, but death would be pretty harsh for most cases. Now if they gave a gun to a guy who told them they intended to use it to murder someone, I'd have no problem lumping them in as an accomplice and having them share whatever fate the courts decide for the murder.