Borg vs KE (again)

[Tyyr]

We regularly see people hit with phasers and get knocked backwards by them. Even shotguns and heavy machine guns don't have enough energy to toss a human backwards from a hit.

[stitch626]

We've also seen people "vaporized" by phasers, and to eliminate that many particles from existence would take way more energy than what a small arms weapon puts out.

[Captain Seafort]

We regularly see people hit with phasers and get knocked backwards by them.

This is obviously not due to the impact of the beam itself, but probably some side effect of the chain reaction the beam induces in the target. If it were, then a) the weapon would be knocked out of the firer's hand and b) it would happen every time, not just occasionally.

[Mikey]

I do mean the nav deflector, and bear in mind that a personal defensive one doesn't have to be nearly as powerful as one which stops impacts at FTL speeds. Anyway, the point was made that KE shields don't commonly exist - I just pointed out that they are ubiquitous.

[Captain Seafort]

We've also seen people "vaporized" by phasers, and to eliminate that many particles from existence would take way more energy than what a small arms weapon puts out.

If they were vaporised the resulting cloud of superheated gas would kill everyone in the same room as the victim.

[stitch626]

We've also seen people "vaporized" by phasers, and to eliminate that many particles from existence would take way more energy than what a small arms weapon puts out.

If they were vaporised the resulting cloud of superheated gas would kill everyone in the same room as the victim.

Thats why I put the damned thing in quotes.

Its been called "vaporized" in the show. But no matter what is done, to remove that many molecules form existence would take more raw energy than any handheld projectile weapon we currently have.

[Mark]

I've heard two explinations for the "vaporization" effect.

1. What the beam actually does is neutrilize what "holds the body together" on a molecular level, thus reverting the target to free flowing atoms.

2. Shift the target "out of continuim", whatever the hell that means.

[stitch626]

I've heard two explinations for the "vaporization" effect.

1. What the beam actually does is neutrilize what "holds the body together" on a molecular level, thus reverting the target to free flowing atoms.

2. Shift the target "out of continuim", whatever the hell that means.

Both of which would take huge amounts of energy.

[Captain Seafort]

Its been called "vaporized" in the show. But no matter what is done, to remove that many molecules form existence would take more raw energy than any handheld projectile weapon we currently have.

That would be true if phasers worked through direct energy transfer. They don't - they're a chain reaction. Ergo, there's no way of determining their power requirements from their effects.

[Deepcrush]

We regularly see people hit with phasers and get knocked backwards by them. Even shotguns and heavy machine guns don't have enough energy to toss a human backwards from a hit.

Take it you've never seen a man hit when the bullet doesn't just pass through the body. A 7.62mm round hitting a grown man in the chest plate will easily pick you up off your feet and send you back a few.

I do mean the nav deflector, and bear in mind that a personal defensive one doesn't have to be nearly as powerful as one which stops impacts at FTL speeds. Anyway, the point was made that KE shields don't commonly exist - I just pointed out that they are ubiquitous.

Ah, okay.

[stitch626]

Its been called "vaporized" in the show. But no matter what is done, to remove that many molecules form existence would take more raw energy than any handheld projectile weapon we currently have.

That would be true if phasers worked through direct energy transfer. They don't - they're a chain reaction. Ergo, there's no way of determining their power requirements from their effects.

Aren't they called directed energy weapons at some point?


Anyway, for the breaking the force between molecules (option 1), that is not self sustaining, so directed energy would be needed.
For shifting out of this continuum (option 2), doing that for one molecule would take an enormous amount of energy.

[Captain Seafort]

Both of which would take huge amounts of energy.

If it did, where do you think said energy would go, hmm? Magic itself away? If phasers acted through DET standing next to someone being shot with one would be akin to standing next to a nuke. This would be rather bad for your health.

[Mark]

We regularly see people hit with phasers and get knocked backwards by them. Even shotguns and heavy machine guns don't have enough energy to toss a human backwards from a hit.

I was hit with a .380 in the left/back of my torso. I was diving for cover at the time, and it had enough force to alter my "flight path". If it would have hit me center mass while on my feet, the concussive force would have easily been enough to stagger me, if not knock me off balance and off my feet.

[Tyyr]

We regularly see people hit with phasers and get knocked backwards by them.

This is obviously not due to the impact of the beam itself, but probably some side effect of the chain reaction the beam induces in the target. If it were, then a) the weapon would be knocked out of the firer's hand and b) it would happen every time, not just occasionally.

That's why they are primarily energy weapons. If a phaser did all that damage by firing a bullet if would toss the firer back as far as it does the target. Phasers don't, they're energy weapons. The knock back could be the result of the a portion of the persons clothes/body vaporizing and sending them backwards. In the end though enough energy is transferred to the target to cause an effect that knocks the target backwards. No man portable firearm can do that.

As for it not always happening, phasers have different power settings and in the end its a TV show.

[stitch626]

Both of which would take huge amounts of energy.

If it did, where do you think said energy would go, hmm? Magic itself away? If phasers acted through DET standing next to someone being shot with one would be akin to standing next to a nuke. This would be rather bad for your health.

For 1) the energy would "disappear" because of being used to counter the energy holding the atoms together (strong and weak nuclear forces).
For 2) into the continuum that the matter went to.