Picard's Worst Decision

[Deepcrush]

Okay, I'll be quiet. Though you guys celebrate St Patricks Day and get completely drunk for a reason. It's in your blood!

Because our first and only revolution was over whiskey?

[Mikey]

Nah, we've had a couple of 'em over whiskey.

[Deepcrush]

There was more then one? Neat, who would have thought whiskey was so importent. *The crowd starts screaming*

[Blackstar the Chakat]

And they're not Amish. The adults have used technology before, but they abandoned it.

Seems pretty Amish to me.

The Amish gave up technology to avoid destroying themselves. The Ba'ku gave it up because they almost destroyed themselves. Totally different.

Much like I haven't ridden a bike in years, I'm sure I could get on one and ride it without much trouble.

That's not a valid analogy.
Imagine you never used a computer for the next fifty years. Now, imagine that after fifty years without any technology whatsoever, someone sat you down in front of a computer, and told you to create a user profile, install a game, look up google for mods for the game, download and install the mods, then play the game. You certainly would not find that as easy as riding a bike. That's nowhere near as complicated as operating a starship, and maintaining it's systems, and you'd still need a good while to get it all done. Even with dozens of Ba'ku manning the ship, they ain't going anywhere fast.

Well, there are universal concepts. With the UT and past experiance it shouldn't take more then a month or two to get the ship fully operational. In fact the less operational it is, the more convincing a distress signal will be.

Now, using unfamilier equipment will be more difficult,

You just won the Understatement of the Year award.
You seriously expect these guys to figure out how to operate an entire starship from scratch? Even if they do somehow remember how to use a computer (very unlikely) they'll be trying to operate a completely unfamiliar system and run it perfectly.

Why would it be unlikely? They've been shown to have to do things like 'live in the moment' (I'm assuming it's difficult, whatever it really does)without any effort. And their children already had great mental concentration, and I'm guessing these mental abilities include memories. It would be difficult to run it perfectly, but you don't have to know how to shoot a gun to use it as a weapon.

but all they need to do is capture one small ship, taking out the communications before they get out a distress signal and they will have the perfect trap to capture a larger ship, or at least another one.

How can they set a trap? They just knocked out the comms, so how are they going to lure the ship into the trap? And once the ship fails to arrive at it's destination (this is, of course, assuming that they manage to disable a completely unfamiliar system before anyone of the crew manages to send out a distress signal. Something that would be almost impossible) then Starfleet will know something has happened to it. When some other ship sees the missing ship comming straight at it, it's going to raise it's shields and arm it's weapons. When that happens, the Ba'ku are screwed.

Well, if they play dead, and send out a distress signal they can pull in a nearby ship. And they don't have to send a distress signal after they figure out how the ship works. After they don't arrive it makes sense that a rescue ship will be sent, and space is a big place.

They'd obviously spend time familierizing themselves with the ship.

Too bad they don't have the weeks they'll need to find out how to operate the ship.
Training to operate an aircraft can take months. What makes you think that the space-Amish can learn how to operate an advanced starship within a few days?[/quote]

I see you have a false sense of speed, even at Warp 9 it would take 5 days to cross a sector. It would take half a month at Warp 6 to cross a sector

They'd force surviving crew to train them before killing them or using them as hostages at some point.

Haven't we seen that Starfleet adheres to the 'I'm telling you nothing' style of captivity?

[/quote]

I doubt they all will adhere to it.

As for the trap, once the rescue ship lowers it's shields to rescue them

Why the hell would they lower their shields? They come across a ship declared missing (this is, of course, going along with the idiotic idea that the crew never got a distress signal out), and the first thing they do is lower their shields? Even Janeway isn't that stupid.

Well, they would lower their shields to rescue the crew/beam over to investigate depending on the exact circumstances.

beam over an attack force to take critical sections

And what's to stop the crew simply turning the shields back on? That can likely be done from several areas on the ship. Are you saying that the Amish will know exactly which areas to hit, and somehow take and hold them against an enemy force with superior numbers and weapons and tactics?

Exact methods depend on the exact circumstances

and jam communications until they secure the enemy's communications

How are they going to know how to do that? And what's to stop the other ship from....oh, I dunno, blowing the Amish ship into oblivion?

Why would they attack a ship they're rescuing?

Or if they had the schematics before hand, beam out certain components,

Yeah, because I'm sure that a small transport ship will have full detailed schematics for every ship in the Federation.

The keyword is IF. Assuming that it was a small transport.

leaving the ship defenseless and without warp capability.

Even if the gods intervened and allowed the Amish to do that, you're still only nullifying the advantage of the superior Federation ship. You still have to contend with the massively superior crew on the Fed ship.

The Galaxy-class has the largest stated crew of 1,000. Voyager had only 150. Are you saying they can fight off 600 really pissed off people?

Geez, it's like you've never RP'd as a pirate before.

The people you've come up against must have been about as competant in military matters as my dog. Wait, I take that back, Caeser would at least know not to run completely defenceless into a freaking obvious trap.

You're no fun at all

And stop calling them Amish. Amish never had technology. the Ba'ku had it and stopped using it. Very different. It makes you look ignorant.

[Deepcrush]

And stop calling them Amish. Amish never had technology. the Ba'ku had it and stopped using it. Very different. It makes you look ignorant.

Umm, the amish do have tech. They don't believe in using it nor buying it nor producing it. But, they are in school, they can use the internet, a few have cell phones but those are mostly for life threating things and oh yeah they love gumball machines. Don't ask me why, they're just really weird about them.

[Captain Seafort]

The Amish gave up technology to avoid destroying themselves. The Ba'ku gave it up because they almost destroyed themselves. Totally different.

I'm sure you believe that - the bottom line is that both groups are luddites, and therefore unlikely to be too keen on technology.

Well, there are universal concepts. With the UT and past experiance it shouldn't take more then a month or two to get the ship fully operational. In fact the less operational it is, the more convincing a distress signal will be.

Prove that said concepts have remained constant for centuries, and that the Ba'ku are aware of them.

Why would it be unlikely? They've been shown to have to do things like 'live in the moment' (I'm assuming it's difficult, whatever it really does)without any effort. And their children already had great mental concentration, and I'm guessing these mental abilities include memories. It would be difficult to run it perfectly, but you don't have to know how to shoot a gun to use it as a weapon.

How does telekenises=the ability to operate completely alien technology.

I see you have a false sense of speed, even at Warp 9 it would take 5 days to cross a sector. It would take half a month at Warp 6 to cross a sector

Quit nitpicking and respond to the salient point that the space-Amish won't have anything like sufficient time to learn how to operate their stolen ship.

I doubt they all will adhere to it.

Evidence?

Well, they would lower their shields to rescue the crew/beam over to investigate depending on the exact circumstances.

Or they'll adhere to General Order 12 and keep their guard up.

Exact methods depend on the exact circumstances

Stop avoiding and answer the question.

Why would they attack a ship they're rescuing?

Because it's under enemy control.

The keyword is IF. Assuming that it was a small transport.

How exactly are the pitchfork-wielding space-Amish going to capture a warship, even one of Starfleet's badly-designed and manned ones?

The Galaxy-class has the largest stated crew of 1,000. Voyager had only 150. Are you saying they can fight off 600 really pissed off people?

Given that the said 600 have no ranged weapons, and no way of getting through forcefields, yes -quite easilly.

And stop calling them Amish. Amish never had technology. the Ba'ku had it and stopped using it. Very different. It makes you look ignorant.

Quit nitpicking - the Amish don't use technology, the Ba'ku don't use technology hence, the Ba'ku are space-Amish.

[Sionnach Glic]

Well, there are universal concepts.

Yes. And computer operating systems aren't one of them.

With the UT and past experiance it shouldn't take more then a month or two to get the ship fully operational.

Yeah, just a couple of months. I mean, it's not like anyone'll be looking for them during that time, or anything.

Why would it be unlikely?

It's a lot easier for the brain to remember actions (eg, riding a bike) than how to operate something on a blank screen. After a few decades, they'd be virtualy clueless about how to operate the systems. Let alone ones they've never encountered before.

It would be difficult to run it perfectly, but you don't have to know how to shoot a gun to use it as a weapon.

No, you don't. But do you know why groups such as the insurgent forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have ridiculously low kill rates against Western forces? It's because they don't know how to use their weapons properly. Sure, they now which way to point the gun, and how to reload it, but they've no hope of getting any accuracy. The same with the Space-Amish here. They may, somehow, get guns, but they've no hope of using them effectively.

Well, if they play dead, and send out a distress signal they can pull in a nearby ship.

Which will then come into the area with shields and weapons raised because it got a distress signal.

And they don't have to send a distress signal after they figure out how the ship works. After they don't arrive it makes sense that a rescue ship will be sent, and space is a big place.

Great. So you're going to topple the Federation......by hiding?

I see you have a false sense of speed, even at Warp 9 it would take 5 days to cross a sector. It would take half a month at Warp 6 to cross a sector

With three or four ships searching, they should be able to find the ship pretty quickly.

Well, they would lower their shields to rescue the crew/beam over to investigate depending on the exact circumstances.

And then get charged by a bunch of guys who don't know how to use a gun? Yeah, the Ba'ku are still screwed. And once they start beaming onto the Fed ship, any semi competant captain will arm phasers and blow the unshielded ship to pieces. After that, it's just a matter of mopping up the few who got aboard.

Exact methods depend on the exact circumstances

And in no circumstance, bar divine intervention, will any of these ridiculous tactics ever succeed.
The Amish try to board the ship, the ship raises shields from one of many areas that can do this, then they blow the enemy ship apart and capture whoever got on board. End of that little rebellion.

Why would they attack a ship they're rescuing?

Gee, maybe the little matter of hostile personel beaming aboard and attacking the crew might push the captain to return fire.

The keyword is IF. Assuming that it was a small transport.

What else would it be? They ain't gonna send an entire warship to carry a bunch of unimportant people to the ass end of nowhere.
Hell, if it was a proper warship it'd be even worse for the Ba'ku, as they'd have zero chance of taking the ship. Hell, even taking the transport on it's own would be a massive challenge, and would likely result in many dead Ba'ku.

The Galaxy-class has the largest stated crew of 1,000. Voyager had only 150. Are you saying they can fight off 600 really pissed off people?

600 pissed off people, with no idea how to effectively use a gun, likely many of them without guns at all, and no idea how to use proper tactics? Sure, no problem.
Hell, they don't even need to fight. Just turn the gravity up whereever they beam aboard. The only problem there would be mopping the stains out of the carpet.

You're no fun at all

I tend to prefer thinking reasonably.

And stop calling them Amish. Amish never had technology. the Ba'ku had it and stopped using it. Very different.

Fine, fine. I'll call 'em the SpAmish. Happy?

Of course, all this is assuming that the transport ship is traveling alone. That's not necessarily the case. If there's another ship protecting the transport, the Ba'ku are completely screwed even if they somehow manage to take over the transport.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

With three or four ships searching, they should be able to find the ship pretty quickly

Evidence?

Gee, maybe the little matter of hostile personnel beaming aboard and attacking the crew might push the captain to return fire.

Weapons, engines, and defences would be the first targets, obviously. As well as killing the command crew, except the weakest one who could give them the command codes, assuming the computer would lock them out(which requires intelligence on Starfleets part).

What else would it be? They ain't gonna send an entire warship to carry a bunch of unimportant people to the ass end of nowhere.
Hell, if it was a proper warship it'd be even worse for the Ba'ku, as they'd have zero chance of taking the ship. Hell, even taking the transport on it's own would be a massive challenge, and would likely result in many dead Ba'ku.

Why would they heavily arm the crew of a transport? Assuming it's a Starfleet transport, they still think they're hauling unarmed passive people

600 pissed off people, with no idea how to effectively use a gun, likely many of them without guns at all, and no idea how to use proper tactics? Sure, no problem.

They almost destroyed their entire species. Now, you'd think that requires some kind of tactics.

Great. So you're going to topple the Federation......by hiding?

I'm afraid some people are smart enough to not run out and go head-to-head.

Fine, fine. I'll call 'em the SpAmish. Happy?

Call them the Ba'ku for crying out loud. The only thing they seem to have in common is a dislike of advanced technology.

I tend to prefer thinking reasonably

You prefer not to use your imagination, I think you mean.

[Mikey]

Weapons, engines, and defences would be the first targets, obviously.

The first targets for a trained group of soldiers with the training to know what to look for, the know-how to find them and attack them, and te technology to do so - NONE of which do the SpAmish have.

I'm afraid some people are smart enough to not run out and go head-to-head.

True. But the people who hide indefinitely arealso the same ones who accomplish nothing but hiding indefinitely.

You prefer not to use your imagination, I think you mean.

Easy does it. Rochey prefers to use his imagination to envision what would actually be most likely to occur, rather than an unsupportable fairy tale - for example, the story of the Ba'ku succeeding in this little plot.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

Weapons, engines, and defences would be the first targets, obviously.

The first targets for a trained group of soldiers with the training to know what to look for, the know-how to find them and attack them, and te technology to do so - NONE of which do the SpAmish have.

The Ba'ku almost destroyed their own species. How could they d that without some concept of tactics?

[Mikey]

George Bush could do it. 'Nuff said.

[Blackstar the Chakat]

He hasn't wiped out the entire human race...yet

[Mikey]

I said "could."

And the SpAmish - I mean, Ba'ku - could have been referring to WMD's, which don't require tactical know-how... or to a power-generation accident... or an environmentally unsound technology... or...

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The Son'a became a formidable force in only 100 years and they were just a few of their young people. Imagine what 600 people will do in the same amount of time.

[Mikey]

The Son'a became a formidable force in only 100 years and they were just a few of their young people. Imagine what 600 people will do in the same amount of time.

So are you really saying that if the Ba'ku decide to rise up against the Federation, the UFP will just watch them prepare for conflict for a century?