Libya - Gaddafi refuses to quit amid protests

[Teaos]

I love how quickly all these oldflags are coming out, I imagin people breaking glass on emergency revolution cases across the country.

[Tsukiyumi]

I love how quickly all these oldflags are coming out, I imagin people breaking glass on emergency revolution cases across the country.

The UN's response is incredibly strong-worded. They didn't even say "please".

[Tyyr]

He's bombing his own oilfields? That's a special kind of crazy.

Gaddafi's management of the military is biting him in the ass. He kept it small and divided along tribal lines. That ensured that there was little chance commanders would be able to coordinate with each other to overthrow him, but now many of the tribes are telling their commanders to go fuck themselves. All he's got are his mercenaries and his son's personal units which aren't enough to control the whole country.

[Mikey]

I'm thinking about the Iran uprising and the way that ended. At most I think they will only swap one tyrant for another. With out serious aid from the west they cant hope for fair and even goverment.

They'd be a damn sight better off keeping Gaddaffi (or Mubarak, if Egypt goes downhill). Better a secular tyrant than an Islamist one.

Based on its lack of silence on the matter of the degree of response to the protesters, the UN seems inclined to disagree.

[Sionnach Glic]

Indeed, its nice to see that people power still works.

I'll wait until the end of the year before I start counting chickens. The last time people power "worked" in the Middle East the result was Hamas' election in the Palestinian territories.

And let's not forget that Gaddafi himself originaly came to power just after the popular overthrow of Libya's monarchy. It's hardly unthinkable that Tunisia, Egypt and Libya may just be trading one dictator for another.

Still, there's always the possibility that some good may yet come out of this. If even one of the countries in question end off with a semi-functioning democracy, or even just a benevolent dictator, it will have been worth it.

[Lighthawk]

Update on events

RAS LANOUF, Libya -- Government forces drove hundreds of rebels from a strategic oil port with a withering rain of rockets and tank shells on Thursday, significantly expanding Moammar Gadhafi's control of Libya as Western nations struggled to find a way to stop him.

France became the first country to recognize the rebels' governing council, and an ally of President Nicolas Sarkozy said his government was planning "targeted operations" to defend civilians if the international community approves.

The Obama administration said it was suspending relations with the Libyan embassy in Washington and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she would meet with opposition leaders in the U.S., Egypt and Tunisia.

But there was no concrete sign of Western moves toward military assistance such as the no-fly zone that the rebels pleaded for as they retreated through the pancake-flat desert scrubland outside the port of Ras Lanouf, scanning the skies for government warplanes.

The fleeing rebels said government forces showered rockets and tank shells on Ras Lanouf in preparation for a full-scale advance. Lightly armed opposition members sped back to their territory by the hundreds, fleeing eastward in cars and pickup trucks mounted with machine guns.

A rebel official in the town of Ajdabiya inside opposition territory said Gadhafi's troops and tanks were battling the insurgents at the western entrance to Ras Lanouf and using gunboats to fire on the rebels from the sea.

"These are tough battles," said Akram al-Zwei, a member of the post-uprising town committee. "We are fighting against four battalions heavily equipped with airpower, tanks, missiles, everything."

He added that the rebels are fighting alongside the Saaiqa 36 Battalion, which had been based in Benghazi but defected to the opposition.

Taking back Ras Lanouf would be a major victory for Gadhafi, reestablishing his power over a badly damaged but vital oil facility and pushing his zone of control further along the main coastal highway running from rebel territory to the capital, Tripoli.

A rebel governing council spokesman said Gadhafi's air force, army and navy had bombarded Ras Lanouf, targeting the main hospital, mosques and civilian areas.

"The regime that has lost legitimacy is practicing a scorched earth policy," spokesman Abdel-Hafidh Ghoga said. "We have requested for all steps to be taken to protect the Libyan people. We believe the U.N. can do that."

The rebel hospital in the eastern town of Brega said four were confirmed dead in the fighting, 35 were wounded and 65 were missing.

The international Red Cross said dozens of civilians have been wounded or killed in recent days in grueling battles between Gadhafi's army and the opposition.

"We need help from the international community, but we just hear promises," said Mohammed Ali Al Zuaiee, a 48-year-old rebel fighter. "They are doing nothing."

The main hospital in Ras Lanouf was hit by artillery or an airstrike and the rebels are pulling their staff out and evacuating patients to the towns of Brega and Ajdabiya, said Gebril Hewada, a doctor on the opposition's health committee in the main eastern city of Benghazi.

France said it planned to exchange ambassadors with the rebels' Interim Governing Council after Sarkozy met with two representatives of the group based in the eastern Libyan city of Benghazi.

"It breaks the ice," said Mustafa Gheriani, an opposition spokesman. "We expect Italy to do it, and we expect England to do it."

French activist-intellectual Bernard Henri-Levy sat in the meeting and said France was planning "targeted operations" to defend civilians if the interim council demands them and the international community approves. Henri-Levy did not elaborate and the French government declined to comment, so it was not clear if Henri-Levy was describing a new, more aggressive plan for intervention.

NATO has said it is planning a no-fly zone but would only act with the approval of the UN Security Council, which diplomats say would hinge on the OK of African and Arab countries. Britain and France have backed the rebels' calls for a no-fly zone, but the Obama administration has expressed deep reservations about involvement in another conflict in the greater Middle East.

NATO said it had started round-the-clock surveillance of the air space over Libya, and British Foreign Secretary William Hague said a meeting of EU foreign ministers would discuss how to isolate the regime.

Germany said it froze billions in assets of the Libyan Central Bank and other state-run agencies. The U.S., UK, Switzerland, Austria and other countries have also frozen Gadhafi's assets.

"The brutal suppression of the Libyan freedom movement can now no longer be financed from funds that are in German banks," Economy Minister Rainer Bruederle said.

The Libyan government tried to stave off tough action, sending envoys to Egypt, Portugal and Greece.

In the west, Gadhafi claimed victory in recapturing Zawiya, the city closest to the capital that had fallen into opposition hands. Western journalists based in Tripoli were taken late Wednesday to a stadium on the outskirts of Zawiya that was filled with Gadhafi loyalists waving green flags and launching fireworks. Libyan TV cameras filmed the celebrations as food, drinks and cooking oil were distributed.

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Government escorts refused journalists' requests to visit the city's main square.; phone lines there have not been working during a deadly, six-day siege.

Red Cross President Jakob Kellenberger said local doctors over the past few days saw a sharp increase in casualties arriving at hospitals in Ajdabiya, in the rebel-held east, and Misrata, in government territory.

Both places saw heavy fighting and air strikes, he said.

Kellenberger said 40 patients were treated for serious injuries in Misrata and 22 dead were taken there.

He said the Red Cross surgical team in Ajdabiya operated on 55 wounded over the past week and "civilians are bearing the brunt of the violence."

He said the aid organization is cut off from access in western areas including Tripoli but believes those are "even more severely affected by the fighting" than eastern rebel-held territories.

Source

[Mikey]

Considering Libya's organization, I expected nothing less.

[Lighthawk]

(CNN) -- Libya called for a cease-fire and a halt to military action on Friday, hours after the U.N. Security Council authorized the use of force to protect besieged civilians in Libya.

Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, speaking to reporters Friday in Tripoli, said that in light of its membership in the United Nations, the country is "obliged to accept the Security Council resolution that permits the use of force to protect the civilian population."

"Therefore, Libya has decided an immediate ceasefire and the stoppage of all military operations," Koussa said.

Earlier Friday, talk of swift military action against Moammar Gadhafi's regime emerged in Europe.

Speaking in an interview with RTL radio, French government spokesman Francois Baroin said France plans to participate in what he described as "swift" efforts.

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Britain has started preparations to deploy aircraft, and "in the coming hours" they will move to air bases where they will be positioned for any "necessary action."

Spain will offer NATO the use of two military bases and also provide air and naval forces for use in operations involving Libya, Defense Minister Carme Chacon said on Friday in Madrid, a defense ministry spokesman told CNN.

The two bases to be offered in southern Spain are the Rota air-naval station, where a contingent of U.S. troops is also based, and the airbase at Moron de la Frontera. Those, as well as the offer to provide air and naval assets, would be subject to parliamentary approval, the minister said at an event at a Spanish air base in Madrid, the spokesman said.

The council Thursday night voted 10 to 0 with five abstentions to authorize "states to take all necessary measures to protect civilians" and it imposed a no-fly zone, banning all flights in Libyan airspace, with exceptions that involve humanitarian aid and evacuation of foreign nationals.

The decisive Security Council move comes after weeks of civil war between the Gadhafi regime and opposition forces, a conflict spurred by an anti-government uprising and regime violence against civilians -- which the U.N. resolution cites as "outrageous."

Koussa says the country is disappointed in the imposition of a no-fly zone, arguing that it will hurt the civilian population and he said the use of military power violates the country's sovereignty.

"There are signs this indeed might take place," Koussa said, referring to the use of military power.

It was not immediately clear just how an international military operation and possible strikes against the Libyan military might unfold.

The United States and NATO partners have contingencies in place to act within hours, according to an administration official familiar with planning.

The contingencies include air strikes and cruise missile attacks designed to cripple Libyan air defenses and punish military units leading Gadhafi's push on opposition strongholds in the east, the official said.

U.S. President Barack Obama will insist on a major Arab role in any no-fly zone, the official said.

The Arab League's U.N. ambassador, Yahya Mahmassani, said two Arab countries would take part in a no-fly zone operation, but he was not sure which two.

U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Thursday that establishing a zone would take "upwards of a week."

But the U.S. military does not view a no-fly zone alone as sufficient to stop Gadhafi. Military officials have said that this move would not halt the heavy artillery the regime is using on the ground.

All commercial air traffic has been shut down in Libya, an official at Eurocontrol said on Friday.

Kaim, speaking in Tripoli, told reporters after the vote that the country will safeguard civilians and its territorial integrity. He called on the international community to send a fact-finding mission to the African nation but not lend material support to rebels.

The opposition, with devoted but largely untrained and under-equipped units, has suffered military setbacks this week. But their hopes were buoyed by the U.N. vote, particularly in rebel-held Benghazi, where an assault by pro-Gadhafi forces has been expected.

The resolution singles out the city. It says U.N. member states can "take all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force."

Gadhafi's son Saadi told CNN Thursday evening that troops will change their tactics and take up positions around Benghazi Saturday or Sunday and assist people fleeing from the city.

The younger Gadhafi said there will be no large-scale assault. Instead police and anti-terrorism units will be sent into the rebel stronghold to disarm the opposition. Unspecified humanitarian groups can help with the exodus of civilians from Benghazi, Saadi Gadhafi said.

In a radio address aired on Libyan state TV, Gadhafi criticized residents of Benghazi and called them "traitors" for seeking help from outsiders.

Along with France, Britain and the United States voted for the resolution, which condemns the "gross and systematic violation of human rights, including arbitrary detentions, enforced disappearances, torture and summary executions."

It details enforcement of an arms embargo against Libya, the freezing of assets and a ban on most flights.

"The United States stands with the Libyan people in support of their universal rights," said U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice.

The abstentions came from China, Russia, Germany, India, and Brazil. Germany said it was concerned about a protracted military conflict. China said it opposes the use of armed force in international relations.

Source

[Tsukiyumi]

The UN actually did something?

Wow.

[Tyyr]

I can't believe China and Russia didn't veto it. Maybe they realized, "Oh right, this is Libya we're talking about. Fuck'em."

Koussa says the country is disappointed in the imposition of a no-fly zone, arguing that it will hurt the civilian population

...not really sure how not being able to bomb them anymore will harm civvies.

[Mikey]

You must have missed the full statement. It should read, "...will hurt the civilian population's chances of being killed by loyalist forces."

[Captain Seafort]

That didn't take long

The UK, the US and France have begun attacking Libya as enforcement of the UN-mandated no-fly zone gets under way.

UK Prime Minister David Cameron has confirmed that British planes are in action over Libya. French planes flew reconnaissance missions and destroyed Libyan vehicles earlier on Saturday.

US media say the US has fired Cruise missiles on Libya from a warship.

Western planes bombed targets in the capital, Tripoli, said the AFP news agency, quoting witnesses and state TV.

A British submarine has fired a number of missiles at Libyan air defence targets, the Ministry of Defence said.

Prime Minister David Cameron said that launching military action against Libya was "necessary, legal and right".

Libyan state TV reported that what it called the "crusader enemy" had bombed civilian areas of Tripoli, as well as fuel storage tanks supplying the western city of Misrata.

Sources in Tripoli told BBC Arabic that the attacks on the city had so far targeted the eastern areas of Sawani, Airport Road, and Ghasheer. These are all areas believed to host military bases.

I hope the "cheese-eating surrender monkey" crowd takes note of who's standing off and launching cruise missiles and who's getting stuck in at considerably closer range.

[Tsukiyumi]

Yeah, I'm actually rather surprised and pleased at France's handling of this.

And, a bit disappointed at our sluggish response.

[Captain Seafort]

And, a bit disappointed at our sluggish response.

Ditto. I thought the idea of electing Obama was to increase the competence of the White House, not make it worse.

[Tsukiyumi]

Ditto. I thought the idea of electing Obama was to increase the competence of the White House, not make it worse.

Yeah, it looked good on paper.